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PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2007 18:18 
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Hi everyone!

Firstly I would like to apologize for not writing in Romanian. I need some information on metro in Bucharest and I couldn't find any www pages in English, not saying anything about pages in Polish...

1. What is the role of Bucharest Metro in the transportation system of the city?
2. Can you tell me something about the integration between metro and street-level transport (buses, trams, trolleybuses etc.)? Are the interchages clearly marked (signage)? Are there any interchange terminals and stations near metro? Are the stations locations convenient for changing passengers? Are the tram and bus stops liked with metro stations? You have to buy seperate tickets? If street-level lines are operated and manged by a seperate company, do they concur with metro and run parallel to metro tunnels?
3. By mid-2007 Metrorex and RATB were supposed to become one company. This didn't happen. Why? Is there any new date and what is now happening in this matter? What will this integration of companies change?
4. Compared to other European cities, metro trains in Bucharest run less frequent (every 5 minutes in peak hours, for example in Prague trains run every 2-3 minutes). Why? Not many passengers use the underground? Is the underground crowded in rush hours?
5. Bucharest as one of few capitals of the satelite countries of the Soviet Union did not receive Russian trains, but trains buit in Romania were introduced for passenger service. Do you know why?
6. Are there any characteristic features that make the Bucharest Metro different from other metros in Central and Eastern Europe?

I would be most grateful for any help.


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PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2007 20:45 
2. Now exist only one interchange point between metro and street-level transport - Cringasi station (metro - trams). The tickets are separated, but the implementation of commun ticketing system is in progress .It not ecist concurence between metro and street-level transport , the capacity of whole transport system is under request and the vehicle are often full.

3. Only reason is political. One company means one budget, and less "managers", less politicians that arrange the auctions and take the commissions.


4. The reason is a money. The metro companyy don't have money to set going more trains. An rushed hours, the trains are full.

6. The distance between station is more great (800m - 1 km or 2-3 stations of tram for example)


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PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2007 23:45 
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Joined: Mon 01 Oct 2007 17:54
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More information in English about the metro of Bucharest at http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/buc/bucurest.htm


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PostPosted: Sun 09 Dec 2007 23:51 
1. It's getting more and more important since the traffic is very crowded, more people started using the metro.
2. The common ticketing system is up and running for some time but it coexists with the separated tickets. There is also a difference in money - a street level transportation journey is 1.1 lei and a metro journey is 1.0 lei. Station locations are convenient though explicit linkage has only the one fantt mentioned.
3. I don't see that happening very soon. RATB is under the authority of the mayor and METROREX under the authority of the Ministry of Transportation.
4. They are working on improving the timing but until then it's not really a pleasure to use the metro in peak hours. it will take some time to solve this problem.
5. Good question, I believe it was because Romania already had train and car factories when they considered building the metro system.
6. fantt is correct but they consider reducing the distance between the stations for the new lines.


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec 2007 00:00 
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5. Any kind of vehicles (with the exception af a few number of "Lada" and "Moskwich" cars) were not any more imported from Soviet Union in Romania after 1967-68. So neither metro trains. Ceausescu's economical politic was "do it yourself".


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec 2007 02:40 
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Joined: Sun 09 Dec 2007 01:04
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Thank you for all your help :) I know Urbanrail.net, but I found information to be not sufficient :) I have though some more questions.

cb wrote:
The common ticketing system is up and running for some time but it coexists with the separated tickets

7. When did it start and with what kind of tickets can be used fot interchanges?

fantt wrote:
Now exist only one interchange point between metro and street-level transport - Cringasi station

8. How does it look? Does it mean that other interchanges are difficult - passengers have to walk a lot etc.?

cb wrote:
They are working on improving the timing

9. What kind of actions are planned? For example in Warsaw we have one short line, but it is very crowded. In the morning sometimes passengers have to wait a little, because it is not possible to get into every train (they run every 2 minutes and 40 seconds)! So Warsaw is planning to buy more trains and to increase train speed.

cb wrote:
RATB is under the authority of the mayor and METROREX under the authority of the Ministry of Transportation

10. That must make planning difficult! So does the mayor and city council have any influence on metro service?

I enclose one photo of the morning peak in the Warsaw Metro - Plac Wilsona.


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec 2007 12:59 
7. This system has started in the middle of 2007. It's called SAT.

8. The Crangasi interchange it's not dificult but it's a bit crowded in the rush hours.

9. So far they have purchased new trains and the the metro lines will be exteneded, but the extension process it's very slow. The interval betwenn trains has been reduced in the rush hours, but the design of the transit stations between different lines it's pretty bad so...
see the movie:) http://www.piticu.ro/2007/12/04/videanu ... index.html

10. The mayor has no or very little influence in the metro.


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec 2007 15:11 
MeWa wrote:
7. When did it start and with what kind of tickets can be used fot interchanges?


You are issued a rechargable card (that should last 2 years) that has a chip inside. You can charge it with credit which can be used on both the surface transport and on the metro or charge it with monthly passes (separate for the metro and surface transport). The prices are the same as the ones for the classic passes. Metrorex doesn't have the terminals to recharge the cards, you can do this only at RATB's booths. It still has a long way to go until you can call this system fully integrated.

Quote:
8. How does it look? Does it mean that other interchanges are difficult - passengers have to walk a lot etc.?


The are direct stairs from the tram platform at crangasi to the passenger tunnel that leads to the metro station's vestibule.

At other stations it ranges from 10m to the metro entrance to a 100-200m walk to the metro entrance + an extra crossing of the street if you switch to/from the tram.


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PostPosted: Mon 10 Dec 2007 17:51 
MeWa wrote:
That must make planning difficult! So does the mayor and city council have any influence on metro service?


Not only that it's difficult but it's a matter of personal ambition - the minister wants the mayor to mind his own business and vice versa (they are from different parties). That's why I don't see RATB and METROREX becoming one authority any time soon.

http://card.ratb.ro/ is the page dedicated to the SAT and it's supposed to have an English version which now seems not to work, but maybe if you try later, it will.


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PostPosted: Tue 11 Dec 2007 21:40 
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LArSON wrote:
it's pretty bad so...
see the movie:) http://www.piticu.ro/2007/12/04/videanu ... index.html
well, that looks quite dangerous :)

bercenicity wrote:
You can charge it with credit which can be used on both the surface transport and on the metro or charge it with monthly passes (separate for the metro and surface transport).

So, am I correct - you still have to buy seperate tickets (for metro and surface transport) and the only benefit of it is the fact, that you can have both tickets on one card?

cb wrote:
Not only that it's difficult but it's a matter of personal ambition - the minister wants the mayor to mind his own business and vice versa (they are from different parties).
well, that surely is not good for the city, because metro plays an important role in the devolpment process. So does the minister at least consult plans of line extensions with city authorities?

I have few more questions.
You have two types of trains. Are they designated for one line? I mean that one type on one line.
Certainely in some ways Bucharest benefited on not importing trains from Soviet Union. Their construction is quite primitive. Passengers dislike them - they are very loud, it is windy in them. Can you tell me something about trains in Bucharest? What is the comfort of travelling? Do they break often? Do they cause any problems?

cb wrote:
http://card.ratb.ro/ is the page dedicated to the SAT
thanks! I hope the English version will be fixed :)


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PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec 2007 00:08 
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Joined: Tue 18 Oct 2005 13:32
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MeWa wrote:
You have two types of trains. Are they designated for one line? I mean that one type on one line.

No, they are not.

Quote:
Their construction is quite primitive. Passengers dislike them - they are very loud, it is windy in them.

In the new trains is very... hot. The ventilation system is a disaster.

Quote:
Can you tell me something about trains in Bucharest? What is the comfort of travelling? Do they break often? Do they cause any problems?

Well ... there are problems... for example, a couple of weeks ago, a IVA train (the old trains) went from Gara de Nord to 1 Mai with the doors opened.

cb wrote:
http://card.ratb.ro/

You know that a 10 fares ticket for the subway (only for the subway) is 7 RON? So it's cheaper then using the ,,Activ" card (1 RON for a fare).


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PostPosted: Wed 12 Dec 2007 12:07 
MeWa wrote:

bercenicity wrote:
You can charge it with credit which can be used on both the surface transport and on the metro or charge it with monthly passes (separate for the metro and surface transport).

So, am I correct - you still have to buy seperate tickets (for metro and surface transport) and the only benefit of it is the fact, that you can have both tickets on one card?


I meant that the monthly passes are separate enteties on the card; the credit can be used for both RATB and the metro seamlessly. And as Dr2006 implied, you are charged the maximum fare at the metro when using the credit on the card.

You can still buy separate classic tickets (paper for RATB and magnetic for metro).

Quote:
I have few more questions.
You have two types of trains. Are they designated for one line? I mean that one type on one line.


Actually on M2 there are only Bombardier trains (because of the new signaling installed), and on M4 there are only Astra trains which are equipped with an ATO system. On M3 (Eroilor-Industriilor) there are (still) only Astra trains and on M1 there is mixed operation.

Quote:
Certainely in some ways Bucharest benefited on not importing trains from Soviet Union. Their construction is quite primitive. Passengers dislike them - they are very loud, it is windy in them. Can you tell me something about trains in Bucharest? What is the comfort of travelling? Do they break often? Do they cause any problems?


The Astra trains have decent ride quality (they have pneumatic secondary suspension), but: the air compressor shakes the car quite well, at low speeds the bogies are noisier than Bombardier's, the doors are a hazard (that is if someone is caught in them the don't have an automatic system that opens them) and the build quality is not that stellar. On the other hand Bombardier trains are more claustrofobic (about half the number of windows), stuffier (in the rush hour the train's ventilation system is overwhelmed and you can't open the windows), the chairs are less comfortable, and they have the characteristic meowing of trains with IGBT power electronics. but they are better maintained and seem to travel faster and have inter-car gangways.

Astra trains seem to have a higher brake down rate.


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PostPosted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 04:03 
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Joined: Sun 09 Dec 2007 01:04
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Welcome in the New Year.

Could you tell me how does work the joint operation of M1 and M3? Trains on M3 terminate at Eroilor and don't go further?

I checked the schedule on the Metrorex website and trains on line M1/M3 in the peak hours run every 6 mins. On line M2 - every 4 mins. That is not very often! For example in Prague or Warsaw trains in the peak hours run every 3 mins or even 2 mins!

Could you tell me also something about train length? In Warsaw trains have 6 carriages - that is 120 metres (the whole length of platform). In Prague - only 5 carriages, but that is still 100 metres.


Traducere [Dr2005]:

Bine v-am gasit in noul an.

Ati putea sa-mi spuneti cum se circula pe M1 si M3? Trenurile de pe M3 se limiteaza la Eroilor si nu merg mai departe?

Am verificat programele de pe site-ul Metrorex si trenurile de pe M1/M3 circula la ore de varf la intervale de 6 minute, iar M2 la 4 minute. Asta inseamna ca nu circula foarte des! De exemplu, in Praga sau Varsovia, la ore de varf, trenurile circula la 3 sau chiar 2 minute!

Deasemenea, puteti sa-mi spuneti ce lungime au trenurile? In Varsovia, trenurile au 6 vagoane - adica 120m (intreaga lungime a peronului). In Praga au doar 5 vagoane, dar tot au 100m lungime.


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PostPosted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 11:46 
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Joined: Tue 18 Oct 2005 13:32
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The trains from M3 terminates at Eroilor. From there you have to take another train on M1.

The 6 minutes on the Metrorex site are fantasy... because the new trains (Bombardier) runs slow when they are full (and they usually are full), so there are moments when the train come in the station after 10, 12 or even 15 minutes. The old trains (IVA) don't have this problem.

A Bombardier train has 6 cars and 112,6 m

An IVA unit have 2 cars. On M1/M3 runs trains made of 3 units (6 cars). The length is almost identical to the length of a Bombardier (I don't know its exact value).
On M4, the trains have 2 Astra units (4 cars), but this route has less passengers then M1, M2 and M3.
On the line between stations Pantelimon and Republica runs trains made of only one IVA unit.

Traducere:
Trenurile de pe M3 se limiteaza la Eroilor. De acolo trebuie sa iei alt tren pe M1.

Cele 6 minute de pe site-ul Metrorex sunt fantezie... pentru ca noile trenuri (Bombardier) circula incet cand sunt pline (si in general sunt pline pana la refuz), deci sunt momente cand trenul ajunge in statie la intervale de 10, 12 sau chiar 15 minute. Trenurile vechi (IVA) nu au aceasta problema.

Un tren Bombardier are 6 vagoane si o lungime toatala de 112,6m
O rama IVA are 2 vagoane. Pe M1/M3 circula trenuri formate din 3 rame IVA, deci 6 vagoane. Lungimea lor este aproape identica cu cea a Bombardierelor (dar nu stiu valoarea ei).
Pe M4 trenurile au 2 rame IVA (4 vagoane), dar aceasta linie are mai putini calatori decat M1, M2 si M3.
Pe linia dintre statiile Pantelimon si Republica circula trenuri formate doar dintr-o rama IVA (2 vagoane).


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PostPosted: Mon 21 Jan 2008 16:50 
At Eroilor station the operation cam be described like this:
- a M3 train comes from Politehnica at track 1, passengers alight the train and wait for a M1 train from Grozavesti at track 3 to continue their trip eastwards; sometimes trains arrive simultaneously at tracks 1 and 3 and passengers don't experince any delays
- the M3 empty train waits at track 1 for a M1 train from Izvor to pass at track 2; this train goes to Grozavesti
- the M3 train then heads on to track 2 and changes direction
- the M3 train takes on passengers and heads on to Politehnica

and the cycle repeats. So the headways on M1 and M3 are linked together. Sometimes, when the headways change (begining or end of the rush hour) or when trains are late, two or more trains on M1 may pass before an M3 finally leaves the station


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PostPosted: Tue 22 Jan 2008 01:15 
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Thank you for the drawings and information about the real situation.

In this article ( http://www.evz.ro/article.php?artid=333975 ) there is something about trains running every 3 minutes. My friend tried to translate it and the message was that in the worst periods additional trains are in service from the reserve trains, so trains in fact run more frequently. But that is quite different from the problems described by Dr2005. So 3 minutes for M2 - is it true or only a plan? And there is even something about 2 minutes...

Will those 26 new Bombardier trains, arriving from December 2007, help resolve the situation? Or are they delivered to serve the extensions and new lines?
And are those trains different from the previous Bombardier tains?

The last question is about extensions. Is there any date given for sections Laromet - 1 Mai and N. Grigorescu - Linia de centura? What line will run to Linia de centura?

Thanks for all your invaluable help!


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PostPosted: Tue 22 Jan 2008 11:33 
Yes, trains run on a 3-4 minute headway on M2 in the morning rush hour, and something like 4-5 minutes in the evening rush.

The article says that passengers will have to wait at least a year for headways of 2-3 minutes.

The headways on M1/3 cannot be reduced much because of the operations required to turnaround the M3 trains at Eroilor.

The new Bombardier trains have already started operating on M1, mixed with the old IVA trains. Some (about 6) of these 26 are for supplementing M2 (which already has a total of 18 Bombardier trains).

Yes, they differ, but only in minor details (they have internal LED matrix displays, more bar grips, etc).

As far as I remember the "Linia de centura" extension (which is supposed to be linked with M3 on the route Industriilor - Eroilor - Piata Unirii - N. Grigorescu - Linia de centura) is due to open this year, and the "Laromet" one next year. But you can safely add 50% of the time remaining, as there are always delays


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2008 00:32 
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And are there any plans to buy any more trains?

Is that true that new entrances to stations are planned to help resolve the situtation with big number of passengers?

Quote:
Metrorex doesn't have the terminals to recharge the cards
I've read somewhere that ticket machines are planned to be installed thist year. Will it be possible to charge the cards then in metro stations?


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2008 03:19 
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Joined: Tue 15 May 2007 22:40
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Location: Toronto, Canada
I read in the news that 21 new 6-car trains will be bought for the new M5 line Drumul Taberei - Universitate. In addition, there were rumours that 16 additional trains (6 cars each) will be purchased to relieve congestion on the existing lines. If any of these plans will materialize is anybody's guess.

Regarding the operation at Eroilor; in 2001, when I left Bucharest, the operation on the M3 line was quite different. The Eroilor-bound M3 train would enter Eroilor station on line 1 (in the above diagrams). Incoming passangers would exit the train and those wishing to travel westward toward Industriilor would board on the same platform. The westbound M3 train would then reverse direction and travel west on the eastbound track :!: (track 1 in bercenicity's diagram) until just east of Politehnica station, where it would use the scissors crossover located there to enter the westbound track toward Industriilor. The advantage of this arrangement was that the operations on the M1 and M3 lines were esentially independent of each other. The downside, of course, was that an Eroilor-bound M3 train would often wait several minutes at Polithenica station for the incoming westbound train to clear the track in front.
Does anybody know when this operation was abandoned and why?


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2008 03:53 
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That is quite interesting. Probably this would allow more frequent running of M1, as someone said that the trains headway can't be improved due to time needed for reversing trains at Eroilor.

What is the status of M5? Works have started?

I have also read that the construction works on line to Linia de centura started in 1989. Why did it take so long?


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2008 13:21 
Octavian wrote:
Does anybody know when this operation was abandoned and why?

Trains ran like that because the crossover from track 1 to track 2 didn't exist. I belive it was actually the other way around (going east it would have bee from track 2 to track 1). In the current configuration you can see that the crossover itself isn't powered (no short sections of third rail like it is the case elsewhere on the network).

MeWa wrote:
What is the status of M5? Works have started?

Last time I heard about it they were looking for funding.

MeWa wrote:
I have also read that the construction works on line to Linia de centura started in 1989. Why did it take so long?

Lack of money. In the 90s there was hardly any construction going on at all, only huge deserted construction pits.


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2008 13:23 
the works were almoust finished in 1989 but no fond have been dedicated to finish the line.


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